BNW FACE-2-FACE: OHANEZE ON THE "HOT SEAT" - PART II

Welcome back to the BiafraNigeriaWorld Hot Seat. This is the conclusion of our interview with Honorable Emma Okocha, Publicity Secretary for Ohaneze and Author of Blood on the Niger.

Hon. Okocha: Before now, Ohaneze had been taunted, you don't have a candidate, you made a declaration. Suddenly we are approaching zero hour, and suddenly we have about five candidates, credible candidates.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Who are they?

Hon. Okocha: We have General Ojukwu who has declared his intention to run. He is a credible candidate and a credible member of Ohaneze. We are proud of him. We have Vice President Ekwueme. There is every indication that he may try again under the platform of PDP. Remember, he was the leading candidate at the last election before the coalition forces of northern generals, America and the retrogrades of Nigerian politics pulled Obasanjo from prison to pit him at Jos. We have Dr. Idika Kanu, a World Bank expert who has expressed his willingness to run. We have Senator Right Honorable Chuba Okadigbo.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Have you mentioned John Nwodo?

Hon. Okocha: Go ahead, put his name there.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are those the people that you think will make good candidates or are those people who have actually said that they would run for president?

Hon. Okocha: They have indicated their willingness. And you know in politics forty-eight hours are enough to overthrow the vote. So what we're saying is that these candidates, any day, before any theatre, before any audience, give them any pulpit, before any studio against Obasanjo, and they will floor him on any issue. Economics, governance, vision, charisma. I don't see Obasanjo standing on the same platform with any of those candidates on any issue. Now nobody will say Ohaneze has no credible candidates. We have passed that stage.

In Ohaneze, we try as much as possible to have a level playing field because, as I told you, it's an amalgam of all that. Once you are an Igbo man, we'll accommodate you.

Put Senator Ikeze in there because I think he did make his intention known. He was a soldier that fought against Biafra. And you're saying that because of that he should not be qualified?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: He is qualified to run?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. But, he should not be qualified to flag the Igbo platform.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: That wasn't the question. The question was would Ohaneze deem him unqualified?

Hon. Okocha: We have in Ohaneze, in order to reach a consensus, because now it's going to be difficult to get a consensus candidate before now the political parties will go for their own political nominees. What we're going home to do now as a result of our meetings with World Igbo Congress and talking with people like you, will be to bring all these candidates, line them up and ask them the following questions: 1) Who is your father? 2) What is your educational background? 3) Can we see your manifesto? 4) Can you define the Igbo interest? 4) How do you intend to win this election? 5) Are we sponsoring you? Crucially, 6) what type of Christian church do you attend? 7) Does he have a history of Sharia conduct? 8) What have you done over the years for your community to convince us that when you get there, you will continue in that regard? 9) What have you done for your community? And then finally, 10) are you ready, after you win the presidency, six months after, one year after, to face a panel? Because we're going to have a serious panel headed by a bishop and retired justices

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What bishop? Which denomination?

Hon. Okocha: We'll get a bishop. It could be an Anglican bishop or a Catholic bishop. It will be a panel independent of Ohaneze to ask these questions. There'll be marks. And then afterward, these people will, through short circuit television, address the Igbo people. What are you going to do? What have you done before? What type of church do you attend? Who is your father? Most of the time, we don't know who these people's fathers are. Who is supporting you? How do you intend to win the election?

So when these questions are asked, and they are answered by these candidates, we'll probably be able to arrive at a consensus candidate.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What would be an example of a bad source of support?

Hon. Okocha: A bad source of support?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: For an Igboman who is running for president, when you ask the questions, "who is backing you?" "who is funding your campaign?" what would be, quite frankly, a wrong answer?

Hon. Okocha: If the candidate is unable to identify his source of support, because most of the time these people are supported from external group that are anti our interests. I'm talking about Northerners, international groups, Obasanjo supported a lot of our governors, a lot of our senators. He's anti-our people. We'll prefer somebody that is independent.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So, basically, any candidate who is being funded by Northerners or any of these external groups that you mentioned would be disqualified?

Hon. Okocha: Not necessarily. If we have a candidate being supported by a Northerner, just for the mere fact that the candidate may not have the money, enough financial engine, to satisfy the conditionalities that you must scale to be able to get to the Nigerian people; you have to pay for media, you have to pay for some logistics. Supposing he has a sponsor from anywhere, he has to explain. We don't want any stitches.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why cant' Ohaneze sponsor its own candidate(s)?

Hon. Okocha: Put it down for me. That's a new one. That's great. We can then decide that we don't want you to get the sponsor, we don't understand it, we don't know the agreement behind it. But, we want to sponsor him. Can we, can Ohaneze, paternity of the Holy Ghost, in Switzerland, in Japan, in Alaska, in Mexico, in South Africa, Mozambique, Cameroon, Bamenda, can we sponsor this candidate?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why not?

Hon. Okocha: I think we can. So all the Igbos in America, all of them are asked to put in a $100 each. I think we'll have enough money.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now would be a good time to ask you. How is Ohaneze currently funded?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze is not being funded by anybody. That's why we have only one computer, and they've been fighting to keep business as usual. The young Igbos of London, a group just like the professionals, are on the London government houses, the British government. Most of them were born there. Their parents were those that didn't come back to BiafraNigeria during the Biafran/Nigeria war. They could not come back. Because of the war, they cannot come back. They speak a smattering of Igbo. They would like to speak Igbo. They have Igbo language clinics. They are ready to make Ohaneze interactive so that people will know about anything we're doing in Enugu. They are ready to donate facilities with computers. But there was some opposition back home.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Who doesn't want that?

Hon. Okocha: We hope when I come in now because of the great meetings I've had with our people here, I'll go in there and this time, I don't have to spend a lot of time to consult convince people. I'm putting the computers there, employ people to start working. Most of these un-traditions will be taken care of. Like you told me about Igbonet.com. They don't think like that.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: They don't think globally?

Hon. Okocha: One governor will give them one million, they'll pocket it. Whereas the opposing group, the Afenifere, the Yoruba group, every governor every month has an obligation to donate N1.5 to Afenifere. The members of the congress, the senators of the assembly put N500,000 every month, and so on down the line. So they have enough cash to do their jobs. We don't have such things. So we're not having any major funding from governors.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now that you have this idea of Ohaneze itself sponsoring its own candidate, and you're going to propose that all Igbo groups from around the world donate money, what kind of system of checks and balances do you have in place to ensure that there will be no questions of embezzlement, funds will be protected and used for the purposes for which they were collected?

Hon. Okocha: This is your idea. You have to advise me. This a new idea that just in. You know why the Igbo couldn't come out in time? Because they were looking at their war chests. They couldn't raise N1 billion individually. Its not like they were not ready to come out, but they couldn't.

Obasanjo in the North coalesced. They were looking at the election by how much money they had. This system solves the problem, so you have to work on it and tell us what to do after it is done.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Okay, let's continue. What structure does Ohaneze have in place for punishing erring members and do you think Ohaneze as presently constituted, has any clout, especially if Igbo senators could decide to ignore you and go ahead to choose Obasanjo as a candidate?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze is in the process of sanctioning erring members. As we've established here, Igbos are republicans. We are not government. We don't have sanctioning powers. Culturally, that's why we're going with the chiefs and going with the Igbo unions. Those unions will be on parade in Aba for the first time. We intend to enforce our sanctions from now on. In fact, we were to de-robe some of them who went to Otah to ask Obasanjo to run for reelection and came to Umuahia. We allowed them to mingle with us. Right now we are in support of the MASSOB declaration that those people will no longer be accepted in Igbo meetings.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are there any other kinds of sanctions?

Hon. Okocha: Not yet. They are working on it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: How do you propose to enforce the sanctions that you do have? What type of mechanism do you have in place?

Hon. Okocha: We are thinking about it, knowing that we cannot, by law, just because somebody defaulted. We can't. But we want to have a relationship with MASSOB group and Bakassi. Remember the reaction in Aba during the killings in Kaduna. I will not tell you what Ohaneze did, but there was a reaction. We are at that stage now.

Secondly, if the senators go on top of the precipice with us during this election year, after the election year, we will see who will default anymore against Ohaneze. That is all I want to say on this point.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are you saying that Ohaneze has laid down the law?

Hon. Okocha: We cannot spit fire anymore and not follow it up.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Do you plan to teach them what leadership is all about? Does Ohaneze plan to show these governors how to be leaders?

Hon. Okocha: Some governors have done well. Others have not done well.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: We are asking because many of the Ohaneze chieftans were governors and are experienced.

Hon. Okocha: No, we don't plan to lecture them on governance. Our job is to monitor the different public officers to see if they are performing according to the interests of the Igbo people. Ultimately, the people will decide whether these governors performed or not. It is the job of the electorate. Our job is not to go and lecture on how to govern. As far as we are concerned, it is for us to let out the issues. Our governors are messing up. They have not been able to give the people the hope. There is a difference between winning elections and establishing good governance. We haven't seen it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So a lot of them haven't been able to follow through with keeping their campaign promises?

Hon. Okocha: That's right.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What is your take on the view expressed by some that the Igbo governors should pull resources together for some public, tangible projects like Power generation and Waste management?

Hon. Okocha: More than that, we believe that the Biafran revolution, people were able to go into manufacturing during the exigency of the war. We were able to manufacture our own war arsenal. We were able to manufacture home-made facilities. We were able to manufacture matches, bricks, bicycles, cars, anything to survive the war. We were able to feed our people despite the blockade. We were able to organize a land army; we were able to refine our own oil. How is it that presently, with all the advantages Eastern Nigeria could not reinvent the Biafran record in agriculture, governance and industrialization? The scientists are there. So we are disappointed. We don't need Abuja, we don't need the World Bank. The resources are there because there are people all over the world, in England, in America. These governors should be out there attracting these brains who are working in all these environments. They have not done that. All they are doing is genuflecting in Abuja, celebrating power, everyday going to chieftancy titles, organizing political meetings. Since the campaign started, it has not ended. They have not sat down. They are just taking the same cocktail from the presidency. Everybody is traveling around the world, so we are disappointed and we thouhgt the governors in the Southeast, the Igbo governors, should not be part of the Nigeriana, the celebration, and the wastage that has become the fulcrum of the PDP government.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You fully acknowledge that these resources are available. How do you plan to use them? Do you have a plan for ensuring that in the future, these governors start utilizing these resources that are there to improve the situation?

Hon. Okocha: We hope so, as Ohaneze gets into the forefront. I've told you how we have organizational problems. We've just gone into the activist part, now we are given a political role to play. As we emerge from one sector into another vista, we believe an Ohaneze political committee, government and administration should be able to advise the governors to go look for the Okigbo blueprints on how Eastern Nigeria developed to that stage. Before the war, Eastern Nigeria was regarded by the World Bank as the fastest developing nation in the world. Our economy was farther in rating than Malaysia, the Asian Tigers, Singapore. Palm produce was Eastern Nigeria's major export. What has happened to palm produce in Eastern Nigeria? All governors are going to Abuja every second, having all these PDP meetings. All they are interested in now is coming back for a second term when they have not performed for four years. We can excuse the other governors of the other states. But an Igbo governor, knowing the history, deprivation of the people, should have not become part of this adage.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So you don't have a definitive plan right now?

Hon. Okocha: That's what we are saying. Those questions, what is your educational background, what have you done for the community? All these things are encapsulated in those two crucial questions. The new people coming in to contest elections either in the local government area or as a gubernatorial candidate should be able to answer these questions, and then we'll know where they are coming from.

The major Igbo interest, as I told you, apart from checking erosion and getting back to the language, is meritocracy. That is our abiding faith. Igbo believe in merit. These governors, and not only the governors, but the public officers and those in the assembly, must have merit. Look at Anyim. If you're not careful, you look stupid looking at him. If he appears here, his stupidity will infect you. So we don't want such characters to lead the Igbo race. What has he done now? Four years are gone. He's very popular in the senate, but he makes sure that the senators go around the world. He gives them all the oil that they need. But what has he done in Abakiliki? Abakiliki is a fruit basket. Abakiliki could feed the entire Western Africa. You can plant anything there, cabbage, rice. He hasn't done anything. Look at the roads. So this is what we're talking about and next time around. Not only the governors, the public officers of Igboland, whether in the local government, whether in the national assembly, and the ministers, have been colossal failures.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Let us shift the focus a little. Ohaneze has been criticized for failing to publicly and boldly condemn murders and other atrocities committed against Nd'Igbo throughout Nigeria. What is your response to that criticism?

Hon. Okocha: That is a fallacy. I told you I have a petition. Ohaneze is the first Igbo group that went and petitioned the federal government, and even asked for indemnities, damages, and accused the federal government of genocide. We were in Enugu, at the public hearing. That was the greatest showing of Ohaneze under the sun. I don't know whether this is debatable. Whoever told you that, it is a fallacy. Continuously, we have been fighting this.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: There were specific incidents, like the killings in Kaduna. When the killings started in Kaduna, it brought out a lot of the anger that you see now. It was the killings that really spawned a lot of the Biafra movement. Much of it started after the Kaduna massacre of 2000. Before then, some people that didn't even care about Nigeria or Biafra, decided, enough of this nonsense. Take your stupid country and go. At that time, Ohaneze was really nowhere to be seen. You didn't know there was any group called Ohaneze. You heard people like Orji Uzor Kalu step up and say if you kill anymore Igbo, we're going to retaliate. Where was Ohaneze in 2001 following Kaduna?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze, as I told you, is very conservative. Before Ohaneze makes any statement, the convention is that it has to be cleared. Nobody comes out and makes a statement on behalf of Ohaneze. Even I, as the Publicity Secretary, cannot come here and make a statement. Before I started talking to you, I had to consult with Enugu, and Enugu had to clear certain groups such as your group. So that nobody comes tomorrow and defaults a statement I make. There's no dictator. Ohaneze was on top of the Kaduna crisis. They made sure that these long buses, Ugbo Ndi Jews, made sure that the owners of those vehicles, "Ekene Dili Chukwu" and "The Young Shall Grow" went to the North and brought back people free of charge. We did a lot.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Did Ohaneze pay Ekene Dili Chukwu and The Young Shall Grow to defray their costs? We've read that the cost of transportation actually doubled that day when the massacre was going on.

Hon. Okocha: Yes, you can trust Igbos to make money out of blood. We are talking about what Ohaneze did. I don't know what Igbos did. Ohaneze intervened. Certain Igbos, as usual, will do what they are known for. They will make money out of blood.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: I guess that's a sore spot. What effort has Ohaneze made to help our veterans who fought in the Biafra/Nigeria war? Is there a program to help alleviate their sufferings and pains?

Hon. Okocha: No.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You haven't addressed that issue?

Hon. Okocha: No, but the claims, in fact I'm going to get you copies of the Ohaneze petition, they made claims. Ohaneze is ready, if after the Oputa panel white paper is published, and those claims are not addressed, we are going to the World Court.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why has Ohanaeze failed to address the issue of a memorial to fallen Biafran heroes and heroines? In 2000, there was to have been a re-burial ceremony at Uli and Obasanjo and some Igbo men, that some of us call efulefu, including Governor Mbadinuju thwarted those plans. Is that the last word on the re-burial?

Hon. Okocha: No. I'm an executive member of Ohaneze, I was on the other side as Ojukwu that there must be a memorial. Even in my book, I am a victim of the genocide. I support totally the Uli exercise.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Your parents?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. What happened was there was division in modalities. Some people said there should be a symbolic re-burial; others said there should be physical remembrance in the way of building a monument. Then there was intrusion from the federal authorities mainly because of the impact such an exercise will have on their purported control of our soul. So they fought it. The last is not out. The young Turks in Ohaneze are working on it because we believe remembering those departed souls will help build our spiritual bonding. That will help in our movement in reclaiming our dues in Nigeria.

Nigeria must pay for that. There should be a standing monument, openly, remembering the departed heroes of the Biafran revolutionary war. But those foreigners, there were black Americans who flew planes there and got shot down. There was a black American family that came to the Uli airport in their own airplane and they were shot and killed there. The plane crashed. There were countless Catholic missionaries, Caritas, nuns and reverend fathers who lost their lives. There were others who were bringing in food, the Red Cross. We are due for a monument and we shall support it. I want to assure our people that we don't have to wait for Ohaneze to do these types of things. Any group and come and set up a monument. I don’t' see anybody doing it. Must it be Ohaneze? Why should we wait for any government? Anybody can set up a monument. Set something up somewhere. Whoever has support from the village or wherever they're offered land. We can build the monument somewhere in Lanham here. What do you think?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: In Lanham? We have to build the monument in Biafra, in Igboland. Don't we?

Hon. Okocha: So is not Ohaneze putting Mbadinuju up to it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Well, Mbadinuju was the one, who, as governor of Anambra State, opposed the reburial at Uli. Did he not?

Hon. Okocha: He's from Uli.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Right and he came up with an excuse why it wasn't going to happen. And when Igbo Day came, Ojukwu was in Umahia and Ohaneze was in Enugu because Ojukwu wanted to go to Uli and was thwarted.

Hon. Okocha: So it was not just an Ohaneze problem.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Did Mbadinuju not go to Enugu? He was in league with Ohaneze. Was he not?

Hon. Okocha: No. There was no governor there. I was there. I was the M.C. There was no governor available. Everybody was afraid to identify with Igbo Day. Ekwueme wasn't there. I went to Lagos at 2 am to fetch the MASSOB leader. And then I was sacked the following day. Why did I bring MASSOB? They queried.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You were sacked for bringing MASSOB?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. They wouldn't entertain me any longer as the Chairman of Publicity. But later on my case was made. When Uwazurike came, he took the whole Enugu in and when he finished his speech, he went into the crowd and that was the end. And there was nobody to move the crowd, in my thinking, if Ojukwu had to go to Umuahia. Okadigbo was slated to speak. Okadigbo turned tail and all the governors abandoned ship.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So Uwazurike was in Enugu and not Umuahia?

Hon. Okocha: He was headed to Umuahia. I told him if he didn't come to our own, Ohaneze would be finished. We would lose credibility. So he came to Enugu because Umaya was not a show. The governor didn't want to identify with Ojukwu equally.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why did Ohaneze fail to speak up when a responsible Igbo with family was publicly humiliated and flogged for drinking a beverage of his choosing after we had been told Sharia was for Muslims only? The opinion out here is that notable Ohaneze members go underground during the Sharia upheavals only to resurface when all is calm and the Igbo mass grave has been covered. Do you think such people are deserving of Igbo trust and do you think it is fair to deny Igbo the dead bodies of their loved ones for a befitting burial even at a so called democratic peace time?

Hon. Okocha: These are not dire options, because you are talking about Gideon, the man that was beheaded. All these cases were forwarded to the Oputa panel and we had complete hearings on them. Witnesses organized by Ohaneze testified.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: We have been waiting to read a press release from Ohaneze condemning the recent insult on Ojukwu and Igbo by an awusa-fulani in denying Ojukwu the right to an award in a university in Igboland. Why are you taking so long? If Abubakar Rimi, the unapologetic jihadist will receive a University of Calabar award, why on earth will somebody even think of denying the former Governor of the Eastern Region and former head of State of Biafra an award in his clan?

Hon. Okocha: What award is it?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Ojukwu was recently recommended for an honorary doctorate degree at the Nnamdi azikiwe University in Awka.

Hon. Okocha: I really want to know in which area of study, but we do not support the fact that he was denied the honor. I believe Ojukwu is as qualified as any Nigerian to get it. Ohaneze will not support any denial to such a prominent Nigerian. We didn't make any statement because we don't make statements on personalities. We make statements on the Igbo interests, if there is something serious on the Igbo interest. Ojukwu, like any other Nigerian, should never be denied what is due him by universities. Universities are independent.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: The reason given for denying him was that Ojukwu might use the opportunity to campaign for and Igbo president. So that would make it an Igbo issue. Don't you think so?

Hon. Okocha: I think Ohaneze condemns such attitude. If it is from the federal government, we condemn it, even if its coming too late, we condemn it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are you going to do something about it?

Hon. Okocha: What can we do about it? What I'm saying is that this is not a crucial Igbo interest that somebody is made a doctor of something. A prominent Nigerian, a prominent Igbo leader, we don't accept that. I don't think it is as crucial as killing Igbos or denying Igbos their rights. We are interested in general Igbo core issues, not individuals.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Ojukwu is a little bit more than just an individual in Igboland. He is a symbol for better or for worse, with all his failings and his strengths and successes, and when Ojukwu is slighted in Igboland, especially when the slight carries a Hausa-Fulani face and signature, it is a slight on Nd'Igbo as a people. Ojukwu is not just another Igboman. I'm sure if it was another Igbo, say one of the One-Nigerianas, he wouldn't have been denied the award. Don't you see that?

Hon. Okocha: I agree with you. I'm sure it has been condemned by other Igbo. It doesn't have to be Ohaneze. Let us have a focus. Many things have been denied Ekwueme, Zik before he died, much worse. He was called names.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: In Igboland?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. We have our perspectives. You can't expect Ohaneze to go out every time any Igbo any individual is denied his rights in Nigeria to go out to the microphone, talking about it. We are talking on Igbo interests, and I'm telling you serious issues like erosion, language, denial of our Igbo top commanders in the army and airforce. These are the areas we talked about, not individuals. Individuals are not that important.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: The Igbo soldiers being denied promotions in the Nigerian army, are those not individuals? I am spending more time on this because when it bodes ill for Igbo people when the Hausa-Fulani are able to block an Igbo from receiving a degree in Igboland, a degree that is not going to put him in power over anybody. You say you want to take control of Igbo territory, then what do we have when outsiders call the shots about who may be honored in Igboland? In this case, we read that the Vice Chancellor of that university already approved the award.

Hon. Okocha: So what stopped it?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You don't know? What stopped it was that somebody, a Northerner named Ali, saw it as something that wasn't just being done to Emeka Ojukwu, but to Nd'Igbo. The Hausa-Fulani Chancellor of that school got involved. Didn't you know that? If it is so important to the North, why not to Ohaneze?

Hon. Okocha: Why should Ohaneze's condemnation be of any relevance? They should go ahead and give the honor and if they refuse they should go to court. Even if we condemn it so what? What I'm saying is that we don't approve that he was denied his right.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now that we are talking about General Ojukwu, what is the extent of his involvement in Ohaneze?

Hon. Okocha: He is one of our leaders. He was at Umuahia. He is always prominent in many of our monthly meetings. I will follow it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: I mean what is his position in the organization?

Hon. Okocha: He is one of our leaders.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You said earlier that you had a chair person, etc.

Hon. Okocha: No, he doesn't belong to the cabinet. He is above the cabinet. What is he going to be, secretary? He is one of the leaders. Anywhere we want to go, if we want to talk to President Obasanjo or if its anything big, he is always there. Most of the time he speaks on behalf of Ohaneze.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Some Igbo feel that AlaIgbo has evolved in a most negative dimension. Ala Igbo was seen as one where every man ruled his own house and the sanctity of human life was upheld. Egwu and Anyim disagree in Ebonyi and a lot of Igbo lives are wasted; Nnamani and friends disagree and lives are lost in Enugu. Pray, tell, what is going on? When did AlaIgbo become a feudal kingdom where talakawas or almajris give their lives for the pleasure of the feudal lords? What do you think is responsible for this trend?

Hon. Okocha: This situation is a big worry. The big worry to Ohaneze and to the majority of Igbo is that our ability to govern has gone down the precipice. We cannot control thugerry as I was saying earlier. These entities, these states, especially Enugu and Ebonyi have been invaded by Abuja directed Igbo politicians. Initially they were appointed to big positions in Abuja and given the blank check to go and unseat these governors. It has been a running battle between Abuja based Igbo politicians and their own governors. We in Ohaneze have over the years intervened, and we have not been able to achieve any compromises. These governors and the advisors from Abuja have declared implacably their position. They are not ready to compromise. And specifically for Enugu, it used to be Chimaroke Nnamani, governor of Enugu, against Nwobodo. And Nwodo, was supporting Chimaroke, Nwodo - the Nsukka Group leader, Okwesilieze Nwodo, made it as secretary General of PDP. Governor Chimaroke, did not lobby for Nwodo to become Secretary General. Right now, the positions have changed. Now it is at daggers drawn. It is Nwodo who has gotten support from Nwobodo.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Nwobodo is supporting Nwodo?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. They are now fighting a Nnamani. All these are based on just ego and this come-back syndrome either by the governors or by the honorable members of the house who also want to come back. In the case of Abakiliki, Anyim was given all the support by the Obasanjo regime. So, that at this time the Anyim bandwagon should be able to corner some votes for Obasanjo, if Obasanjo chose to seek re-election. That was the plan. That was why Okadigbo had to go. Eventually, that also played out with great casualties amongst our people. That has worried us a lot.

And Ohaneze intervened in the case of Ebonyi, in the case of Enugu and we never got any results, not because we are not influential but because we thought when parties in conflict are so implacably posited, we allow them to play it out. Either we have a cohesive outcome or a resolution will be made by one party overwhelming the other. But then there is the issue of intervention. The federal government is bent on getting their way in not only Enugu, in Ebonbyi, but in Anambra, even in Abia despite that fact that these governors are not really performing according to the expectations of the people. So, that is the dangerous issue and the future is really fraught with great dangers. Ohaneze has a lot of limitations because we are dealing with political parties. We are no longer dealing with brother Igboman, we're dealing with their political parties and there are limits to influencing political decisions. So that is the issue. As I'm talking to you now, there are a lot of killings in Enugu. There is a lot of thugerry going on in Abakiliki on both sides and Umuahia, Abia, imposed by these turncoat ministers in Abuja. We are expecting a lot inflammation in the future.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why do the majority of the Ohaneze leadership retire to places outside Igbo land? A Shehu Shagari retired to his Shagari village and ditto others, but our so called "Igbo leaders" retire to Lagos and lately to Abuja. Don't you think that is why some basic amenities are lacking in ala-Igbo? It is believed that if these Igbo who are in government feel they'd retire to their village, then they'll do their best to attract the most basic amenity to the place. Atiku Abubakar was less than six months in power when NITEL went to his little known village with a digital line. How does that compare with Ekwueme's four years in the same position?

Hon. Okocha: I totally agree with you. But I disagree that Ohaneze leaders retire to Abuja and Lagos. The chairman of Ohaneze Nd'Igbo, Justice Ozo Ozobu, resides in , same GRA where we have the Ohaneze headquarters, Arthur Nwankwo. Former director of the Biafran Bank of the Exchequer, the Biafran Central Bank, Dr. Sylvester Ugo, They are all living in Enugu. I don't see any visible Ohaneze leader living outside Enugu or Eastern Nigeria. Those are leaders of the Ohaneze, or was it Dr. Okigbo before he died, he had a house in Lagos but most of the time he was living in Enugu. But some Igbo politicians, former leaders, that could be correct for them. Even Ekwueme is resident at Oko, his village. He has the biggest house there even though at any moment now it may disappear because of erosion incursion.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Do you not worry that contrary to what some of our loud governors are saying, investment is actually going away from AlaIgbo?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. I worry because I have a crusade. In general, we are not satisfied with this government, not only because of the resources that are coming in, but because of how the resources are being used. The investment influence is not there because security, as you have noted, is not there. We have the Bakassi in Onisha; it is critical in Enugu State and Ebonyi. In the work force, there is no motivation. Most of the people in Igboland are not being paid, not teachers, not workers. The middle class is totally disappearing. We have Okada all over the place. I don't know why these governors are not concerned.

That is why Ohaneze has said, four years is enough. The Igbo is bidding for the presidency and again all public officers, including local governments, including members of the assembly, states, the national assembly, the senate, including governors, four years all of them should go away. That is the major area of their communique in Omuahia last month. I don't know if anybody has changed it. But for those of you who think that Ohaneze is conservative, I cannot say anything more radical than that. No body, no other group in Nigeria had been able to stand and say all these people should go away and allow new blood.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Ohaneze has an office in Enugu. Is that the only office you have?

Hon. Okocha: That is the only office we have.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Is that enough, and how do you coordinate you activities?

Hon. Okocha: That is where all the Igbo magic, all the Igbo industry comes in. We are hoping to improve on the services. We are hoping to get more computers, more facilities, more administrative executive officers, and volunteers to man our offices because of our expanding responsibilities, and that office in Enugu must be expanded in every ramification, not only in terms of personnel but in terms of information. We want to relate to Igbo in Australia, UK and America. For us to attain this lofty goal, this lofty interest, this lofty objective, we need to open up, we need to make use of our resources all over the world.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Here come the softie questions. Are you related to the J.J. Okocha who was just playing for the BiafraNigerian team in the World Cup?

Hon. Okocha: Is he related to me? Is he related to me?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Okay, is he related to you?

Hon. Okocha: Is he related to me? That's my answer.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Okay, so there's no relation?

Hon. Okocha: Seriously, J.J. Okocha is an Enugu boy. But being a West Niger Igbo, when I was playing for Rangers, he had not come up. It was his brother, Emma Okocha (my name sake), who was playing for Vasco, that asked Christian Chukwu who asked him to come play for Rangers because if you haven't played for Rangers, you haven't started. So when I was leaving for the U.S., that is how he started. That's the mix-up. So, I when I went to Lagos, having played for Julius Berger and Nigeria, people mixed us up because we are from the same area, I am from Asaba and he is from Ogwashi Ukwu. All of us started in Enugu, Nnamdi Nwokocha who played in the World Cup. I'm the first Nigerian that came back from the U.S. and said that's the best player in the Nigeria, if not in Africa. People were saying oh that's because he is your brother. Look at him now. Look at the last World Cup. If we had Oliseh defending mid field, Okocha could be released up front. We could have had more pep in our offensive. We would have been playing like Cameroon, Senegal. But Okocha was dropped to play defensive midfield and there was no firepower up front, nobody to give complementary attacks to Julius Aghahowa. So there was no one there. So I'm subscribing to the view that the coach should resign honorably.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Honorably? Oh he's been removed. They took him out as coach and put him somewhere in the back office.

Hon. Okocha: They should have allowed the other man to continue. He could have won the World Cup.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Still on soccer, what year did you play for the Enugu Rangers and for BiafraNigeria?

Hon. Okocha: I was there, playing for the university, that was 79 - 81. I played for Julius Berger the same year. For the World Cup 75 we were only two. Do you know Forster Ikeagu, who just died? Obi Okoye, the Nigerian football center halfback for many was our coach in CKC. I was in Father Tiko's team. And the people playing our soccer now is Cameroon. We played power football. See Cameroon, they were just unlucky. If they had beaten Ireland, they could have gone very far. They don't waste time. They don't have something like Kanu's type of football. Kanu is so soft. We need power football. We need Sango from Cameroon, big boys. See their height, they eat only plantains. Do you know they pound it? I know that because I used to be there. And after dealing with you they take you to their clubs, see their girls dancing makossa. Usually they bring us to the club before the match. When we finish dancing they just beat us 6-0.

So Nigerian football has been improved upon. The Africans believe in strength, stamina and speed. That's the only advantage we have against Europeans. We cannot be playing like Brazil. J.J. Okocha and Kanu, no. We can mix it up. There was no speed, no attack. Senegal has combined it but we cannot afford it. Senegal has about five finesse players that can let go power, but Cameroon is total power.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now, the biggest softie; it seems that you would make a good candidate. Why aren't you running for president?

Hon. Okocha: I am not running for president because the Western Igbos are not united yet on issues. There are certain issues that Western Igbos need to resolve, 1) Western Igbos since 1939, when Enugu was the capital of the Southern Protectorate, it was the vision of the colonial master that the Asaba and Abor divisions should be carved into the same place. But, because of their minority disadvantages under the Western Region, it has been a constant agitation. In 1975, the Minna province woke up and started agitating for Niger State, that was a State we campaigned for. In 1956, at the Amai Declaration, Western Igbos also asked for a separate identity. Groups from there have been asking to be carved into their own identity. That is why you call them and some of them say they are not Igbos. It is for all of us to ask those people why they are saying they are not Igbos. During the war, they fought the Biafran war more than any group. They were the people that went over to Onitsha and Nnewi and never gave an inch. The Biafran army collapsed through the Southern sectors. Port Harcourt, Aba, Umuahia, etc.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Hon. Emma Okocha, thank you for taking the time to speak with BiafraNigeriaWorld. BiafraNigeriaWorld wishes you luck in your bid for the governorship or a senate seat in Delta State.


END.

BNW FACE-2-FACE: OHANEZE ON THE "HOT SEAT" - PART I

On June 19, 2002, the Honorable Emmanuel Okocha, Publicity Secretary for Ohaneze Nd'Igbo, took the BiafraNigeriaWorld "hot seat" and spoke at length on issues including the 2003 presidential elections, MASSOB, the Biafra movement, and efforts to mobilize Nd'Igbo for 2003 and beyond. Hon. Okocha took the opportunity to respond to Ohaneze's critics, while shedding light on the candidacy of John Nwodo. He also talked about his own bid for the governorship of Delta State under the APP platform, and much more. Hon. Okocha is the author of the book, Blood on the Niger, and publisher of the USA Africa magazine.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: BiafraNigerians would like you to introduce yourself, give us a little background, tell us a bit about yourself and let's start there.

Hon. Okocha: I am Honorable Emma Okocha. I am orphaned. I was orphaned during the civil war. My parents suffered. They were victims of the genocide that was carried out by federal troops when they entered into Asaba on October 7, 1967. Asaba suffered the greatest casualty figures amongst civilian victims during the Nigerian Civil War. Following the recapture of the former mid-western states from the Biafran soldiers by the federal troops. After the civil war I was able to finish my school, secondary, high school, university by scholarship which was offered to us by the then mid-western government under Sammuel Ogbemudia and since then I've had this passion to ask the questions "why should my people be killed?" And it is with the same passion we're able to go into politics, free journalism, engage in sports. As I was telling you I used to play soccer for Nigeria. I was also a tennis player -- involved myself in satellite tournaments -- Jamaica, Europe, New England States and occasionally in the Washington area where I lived some ten years back. Since then I've been in Nigeria and been into government, now I'm going to run for an office.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Which office?

Hon. Okocha: I hope EI will run for the big one. Directly we don't know yet because in our coalition we believe the people determine what the candidate will run for. I started as a councilor in local government; been a delegate representative in the constitutional assembly. So I've run elections since I returned from the United States. I've been running elections and winning. I haven't bee demanding any money or giving anybody money and this time I want to try my luck among the big constituents.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So by the "big one" you mean the presidency?

Hon. Okocha: No. The big one in Delta State. I stopped at that.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What's the big one in Delta State?

Hon. Okocha: There's the governorship, gubernatorial elections; there's the Senate especially being a western Igbo we have seen a lot of regret. Those who have gone into the national assembly have squandered the years. This is the end of the Senate tenure. Our representative, our own Senator has not even moved one single bill and our people are suffering under the hegemony of other nationalities who ultimately were part of the people that won the civil war. The western Igbo in Delta State is considered a non-citizen. It is like South Africa during the apartheid -- the western Igbo is not considered a core Deltan. The western Igbo cannot easily be assimilated in the civil service, or democratic institution of Delta State. We don't have permanent secretaries and this is the area we used to prosper when we were in the Nigerian Federation in the old mid-western region. The western Igbos produced a lot of top civil servants. P.C. Asiodu, C.C. Mordi, etc. So this time we're not there. We're not in the bureaucracy, we're not in the political top echelons, we're not in the sports, yet we produce the Keshis, the Victor Oduas. Seventy-five percent of those J.J. Okochas, those are the western Igbos. Yet in the offices we're not there.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So what's the obstacle? Why aren't you there? What do you see as the stumbling block?

Hon. Okocha: There is the standing state policy that once you're Igbo, whether you are western Igbo you must be degraded as second-class citizens. So what is happening to Igbos in general in Nigeria is being accentuated in Delta

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So what's going to be the impetus for change?

Hon. Okocha: That's why we think this is the time. The time is now because we think people are so disenchanted with the present situation that anybody that raises the issues -- like I know I know the issues. I don't care about how much money you have but I know I can talk more on the issues than any other candidate, any other human being of my generation in that part of the world.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: From what I understand, your goal is to get an Igbo into the presidency. Is that correct?

Hon. Okocha: My goal is not necessarily to get an Igbo, but as you premise this discussion on the theory that guarantees safe federations all over the world like Signapore, Malasia, Switzerland, United States of America, every federation according to the expert analysis of professor J. C. Way. Every federation must cooperate, coexist, co-exert and coordinate. If these four indices of a federation are lacking the federation will not function. The Nigerian federation does not have room for parity of forces as a super position of powers. And then we don't coexist, we don't cooperate. The Igbos are left to play crumbling rolls and at this point in time there is just a lack of good leadership. They don't have those types of characters that used to co-exert, people like Nnamdi Azikiwe, M.I. Okpara, Akanu Ibiam. These are our forefathers. How come that the present generation are only after blue chip jobs? The best jobs are in the United States. Because these Igbos are brilliant, they go to the United Nations, the top most lady among the African division at the World Bank is Dr. Iwuala, she is an Igbo leader. The same thing in the United Nations, all over the world, Igbos prosper. But in their politics suddenly there is a lack. We have around us charlatans. So these are our challenges, to take over, see what we can do. So that these federations that must depend on these co-exerting factors, coexisting factors like I told you as Switzerland, if the canons of Switzerland cannot cooperate, the Swiss federation will collapse. In Nigeria, it is in the interest of Nigerians that they should allow certain roles for Igbos to play, not only in the East but in the Western part of the nation.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So what if you can't do that? What then is the solution for the Igbo if you cannot achieve this goal?

Hon. Okocha: There is nothing from the history that guided the Nigerian Federation as played by the Igbos. Igbos from history because during the independence war they were at the forefront, they performed. Once they get mobilized, once somebody breaks the issues down to them to see, Igbos will join forces. That's what we are doing. We are now interested. Like you asked me 'what do you want to be'? That is not the immediate question. We are now in the period of mobilizing, getting the issues aggregated, getting our interests defined. For the first time we have been able to define the Igbo interest.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Isn't it usually better to have a goal in mind then you plot your course carefully so you can achieve that goal. You have to have an ultimate goal in mind. You can't just define issues in a vacuum without having a direction. So I just want to know what is the destination?

Hon. Okocha: You know you're very right. But in politics what you call goals I call political interests. The core goals in psychology or career setting or agenda whatever is different but in political practice, goals are defined as interests. What is your interest? Morgenthau, on the Politics among Nations. America defines their interests in the Middle East ...

BiafraNigeriaWorld: But whatever you call it, isn't it still the same thing?

Hon. Okocha: That is what I'm saying. Those goals are what EThis is the first time since the civil war, since before the civil war, the Igbo man's goal was the Nigerian goal. Get something from Nigeria, make Nigeria good. We have invested in Lagos, we have invested all over the country. The other groups, the Yoruba groups, they were not interested in Nigeria, they were interested in their Western enclave. The Northerners were interested in spreading the Sharia, getting Nigeria to be a Muslim country. But we are managing, trying to manage these forces to get a Nigerian ideal, but now it has failed. There are groups that don't even want to see Nigeria anymore. Those are the Biafran resurgimento groups. But those of us in Ohaneze said, we agree. Nigeria has been a major disappointment, in spite of its resources. But can you change Nigeria? We started to have oasis of hope. That's why we said why not define for the first time, the Igbo interest, the Igbo goals your own words? Once you get it defined the leadership will emerge. But when you come and say I want to be governor, I want to be president, there is no mobilization, there is no socialization of the people, there is no followership. It is going to be difficult. But now we are mobilized courting our group, defining our interests like now the major interest of the Igbo man is to check the erosion explosion in Igboland. If that erosion is not checked, we may not see an Igboland in the next ten years. I don’t know where it comes from but I know in every village, every second it's collapsing before my eyes. It's modern, the states, the local government, take a look at the Nigerian nation, where an Igbo man becomes the president, is from that platform, will solve those problems.

Second interest, if you like, getting the Igbo language as the number one form of communication for the Igbos all over the world because they are speaking very great English, but it is not Eyou know this is a culture among Igbos, they speak good English, good Spanish, good French. The Yoruba man doesn't care, they speak their language.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You know that's a really interesting point. There's a recent article published at BiafraNigeriaWorld on that very topic. If you have time, please take a look at it. But I'm curious, what was your trip here about? What are you doing in the United States?

Hon. Okocha: I will answer to give our discussion direction. I was talking about mobilization, to identify those interests so that those leaders after the mobilization they will then I came here as part of a mobilization exercise. We have our people with different groups not talking to themselves. We've been able to within this trip get those groups talking to themselves. We cannot totally unify people once they have their different platforms, once they have their different methodologies and their goals. Even in your own family, I don't think you have the same unity of purpose. You know we don't believe in that utopia. All we have done now is to admit that we cannot be the same unified train but we can identify similar interests, similar goals so that those of them who are on the other side can as much as possible merge with other groups who are thinking alike. My visit here is to identify those groups who are thinking like us. Can we produce for the benefit of assuaging those interest of an Igbo president using the resources we have in America. We've done that in Houston because we have identified Houston as having the greatest number of Igbos. Been to Texas, been to New Orleans, been to Kansas. We went to Kansas to speak to the Anioma Igbos, those are the western Igbos some never believed they were Igbos. So after talking with them in Kansas I was very pleased and for the first time they decided to join their kith and kin in the Eastern flank. And as I am talking to you, Ohaneze for the first time is to have their monthly meeting in Asaba the capital of Delta State, which has never happened before. So my visit here is to identify those groups, get them together, and the seek the resources because we believe, profession by profession, especially the new profession, when you are talking about the new profession, we are talking about medical scientists, those transplant liver surgeons, we're talking about the insurance, the computer technology group, the banking finance group, those are what we consider the new professions, as opposed to just lawyers and education group. We have the majority of them in Nigeria. So these are where we thought the Igbos have a lot of professionals in America no longer coming home. Or I've graduated I'm going to come home, no more. They are here. They're going to remain here and they've become very serious opinion molders on the American side. So if America decides that the next Nigerian presidency could go to the East, we have made it. Because it was America that got a prisoner Olusegun Obasanjo through the Baptist mission as proposed by Baptist faithfuls like Jimmy Carter, Jesse Jackson, Andrew Young from Atlanta. Those are the protagonists of the idea that Obasanjo, then a prisoner, should be made the president of Nigeria, despite the fact that he lost his deposit in his local government. So where can we use our own resources, the Igbo resources that could measure, could be even more awesome than any India, Chinese or European resources here. What are they doing for us to convince the American opinion makers and get us the presidency as they did during Obansanjo's Ekwueme contest.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Have you identified anyone within the American government that could be approachable?

Hon. Okocha: That is the job of these resources. That is their job.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Even coming from Africa you should still have an idea of whom you need to bring into the fold?

Hon. Okocha: Yes, we tend to leave that job to our brothers who are more Ewho deal more directly with them. They are in the NASA, some of our brothers are lobbyists in the Congress, one is a Mayor in Cleveland, he is an Igbo man. I can tell you I've identified but I know they will do a better job because they are here. We’ve given them that function.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So you mentioned bankers and IT professionals, what do you do for a living?

Hon. Okocha: I'm a journalist, at present I'm the executive editor of Post Express the first Nigerian newspaper in the Internet and I'm a sports promoter. I intend to bring the William sisters to Nigeria to tour West Africa. I'm talking to the EI was in the Nigerian government. Before now, I was a Commissioner, and then right now I'm back to journalism.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Post Express seems to be offline. What happened?

Hon. Okocha: We are going to restore it. What happened is that there is a change in management. We are going to reorganize the place.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Let's get back to Ohaneze the organization. How did it come about?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze was founded by seven gentlemen, K.O. Mbadiwe, Akanu Ibiam. These were former Igbo leaders who were prominent in the struggle for Nigeria's independence. After the Nigerian Civil War with the total isolation of the Igbo interest away from the Nigerian Federation Ohaneze was formed as a lobby to bring Igbos back to the mainstream. These gentlemen are K.O. Mbadiwe, he was a former minister under Belewa, Akanu Ibiam, former governor of Eastern Nigeria, when Western Cameroon was part of us, D.V. Osadebay, my uncle. All these people are late. He was the former premier, the first and last premier of mid-western Nigeria. The former sponsor of Ohaneze then was this man from Umunze, , the Balitete of Umunze, Chief Ugochukwu, owner of Ugochukwu tires, Dr. Pius Okigbo, a reverred Nigerian economist and then special advisor to the federal government. Those are the people who founded Ohaneze.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: When did they found the organization?

Hon. Okocha: It was founded during the first election after the civil war. I don't know the exact date -- around late '70's. So it was founded to take care of these Igbo interests. Midway, it was involved in partisan politics. That time Igbos had a party they called NPP, Ohaneze was used. Most of the Ohaneze people were in NPN. Ohaneze was used to fight NPP and it was a losing battle. So Ohaneze was given a knock out punch because NPP took over Igboland. So after the deaths of all these men, because at that time they were septuagenarians, Ohaneze was resuscitated in this era, especially during the Oputa panel, during the killings in the North, Kaduna riots, during the institution of Sharia as a religious mission in the North, so Ohaneze came out to play certain roles. We challenged the Sharia. Ohaneze wrote a petition, organized witnesses to appear in the area, both in Enugu and Abuja. Ohaneze since then has been regarded as the Pan-Igbo cultural leader. And now, two years ago in Enugu, at the Enugu presidential address, Ohaneze rose from a meeting in January 2000, made a declaration that no more would an Igbo man play second fiddle, we would never accept the vice presidency anymore. The Igbos will contest the presidency, 2003. So that is the situation right now.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: How is the organization structured in terms of its leadership? How do you as the Publicity Secretary fit into the organization? How did you become the Publicity Secretary?

Hon. Okocha: I became the publicity secretary after playing a role as the chairman of publicity during the Igbo Day celebrations and the incumbent publicity secretary was voted out of office so and then I belonged to a think tank, what they call Nkpuke. What you talk in Nkpuke you don't say it out at the open assembly. So we enter into Nkpuke and I'm the smallest boy there. People were 70, 60, 50, they are probably former justices, ministers, there you present papers and because of my book and coming from Delta, this is the area, what they call federal character. That's why I'm a member of Nkpuke and I lead the Young Turks because most of the time people criticize Ohaneze of being too conservative. So we want to change how we react. We were the first group that admitted the MASSOB, admitted the Bakassi, people like our Secretary General, Nwabueze is a constitutional lawyer, a Nigerian expert in constitutional law, he teaches the constitution, he is a graduate of the London School of Economics. He was teaching there. He wouldn’t like anything unconstitutional. So we damned that. We said we need to control our own area. Without Bakassi and MASSOB, we cannot control the East so we had to admit them. It took a lot of lobbying and a lot of talking for them to accept that. So, they are now part of us.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: MASSOB was forcibly excluded from your last "Igbo day" celebrations in Enugu. Why?

Hon. Okocha: What happened was that before the last one, in 2001, we had to bring them in, and Uwazuruike really pulled the crowd. Ohaneze does not discriminate. Once you are an Igbo man you are a member of Ohaneze. The Ohaneze we are talking about is just the executive cabinet. But once you are Igbo you are an Ohaneze child. So for MASSOB to say they were excluded or not excluded is not the issue. The issue was that certain Esome leaders of Ohaneze would not like to relate with MASSOB. And then those of us, Ohaneze's younger members, told them that things had to change. We need this group, just like we need groups like Aka-Ikenga, World Igbo Congress Group, whether they're of conservative bent or radical movement, once they are Igbo, they are Igbo. So nobody would say MASSOB or Bakassi is not accepted. Nobody. What happened was that they should come in there, part of the program and in the 1 million march, we are going to organize in Aba. MASSOB will be represented and we don't discriminate. It is not anything official except there are some leaders like I told you who are either afraid or because of Abuja relationship, they would not like to be related.

The details of the march, the symbolism of the march is to teach, that Igbos are now together. This is an election year. If anybody says he is against the Igbo interest, let him be excused from the march, but I know that most probably everybody, including those who were in the Obasanjo camp, they will all run to Aba to get some media attention. Because if we are really going to really have a 1 million march, not only the men this time. Remember the historic position of Aba in Nigerian history. In 1929 Aba women went on riot. They were the first Bostonians. Boston went to riot because of federal taxation. The Aba women are savvy, in 1929. They broke and had their first strike against tax. So we're going to reincarnate that effort. They are moving the women. We are looking for the best world. We are looking at an Igbo language to produce for us what should be the theme of that march. Women and men, oshimili umu nwanyi na umu nwoke, something like that to give it impact.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Earlier you mentioned the Ohaneze cabinet. Could you describe the Ohaneze cabinet?

Hon. Okocha: The Ohaneze cabinet has a chairman, an executive chairman, a retired chief justice, Ozo Ozobu, it has a secretary general, as I told you a constitutional expert, the best in West Africa, his name is Dr. Ben Nwabueze, it has a treasurer from Abia. Nwabueze is from Anambra, justice, the chairman is from Enugu state, the treasurer is from Abia, the deputy secretary, Dr. Nwogu, is from Imo. I myself am from Asaba, that's Delta, the publicity secretary. I'm the last. So you see they made these appointments to satisfy the different states that make up the Igbo nation.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So you did that to make sure that all the people are really represented within Ohaneze?

Hon. Okocha: Right.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So are these people elected, selected or appointed? How did you and the others in the cabinet attain your positions? Or how did you make your selections?

Hon. Okocha: These were positions that were there before I came in. I don't think they were really elected. They were appointed based on their achievements because Igbo rules accept achievement because it’s a functional rule that operates on meritocracy. When I talk about constitutional expertise in Nigeria, Professor Nwabueze is number one, that's why they appointed him secretary general to make sure we don't enter into constitutional faux pas. He's a conservative. There are others who are chairmen of committees, chairman of political committee, chairman of strategic and planning committee, like comrade Uche Chukwumerije and a member of the planning committee also. But the executive is not elected, there is a proposal to make sure that future elections are carried out to usher in new members. The proposals are there because a constitutional amendment has to take place for that to happen, its on the ground.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So there is a constitution?

Hon. Okocha: Yes.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What does the constitution say right now about how these officials are to be picked?

Hon. Okocha: When it started, it started as a small thing? But because of the issues that it has treated, it has exploded into something very big. Now that people want to come in and they're asking for constitutional amendments, so that next time around when these elderly fellows leave office, there will be elections. I think its on the ground right now, we're looking forward to it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You also said that one of the goals of Ohaneze was to bring the Igbos into the mainstream of Nigeria and then you also mentioned that there were some members of the cabinet who are conservative and are not as radical as for instance some members of MASSOB, so there is a bit of conflict---

Hon. Okocha: Standoff!

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Okay, standoff between them. Why did you choose to call the group Ohaneze? Why not Oha Nd'Igbo?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze means the whole people plus the chiefs. What we did on a daily basis with the chiefs, for us to control the crucial constituents, that's our people's towns, the chiefs must be there, the traditional chiefs. That's why we say Oha. Oha takes care of the Ndigbo. Na eze, do you understand? So for every meeting to take place there must be a chief that must chair. Every time we are in Enugu, there must be an Enugu chief. Last time I went to Abia, an umuahia chief was the chairman. Ohaneze cabinet, none of the members could chair the sessions, there must be a traditional chief. That is how it works out.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: One thing that needed to come out of that was that was the question, why not "Oha Nd'Igbo" since Igbo regard themselves as Republicans and it is agreed generally that "Igbo enwe Eze"? Most of the younger generation tend to see Ohaneze as an insular and feudal group of "Ezes". If Igbo enwe Eze, why did you name this thing that is supposed to bring all Igbo together "Ohaneze" when eze suggests that there is now a hierarchy? Igbo base things on achievements, so that no one who has not achieved can rise above another. How does the name Ohaneze highlight that reality about Nd'Igbo?

Hon. Okocha: Igbo enwe Eze is a historical fallacy because inasmuch as we say Igbos enwe Eze, remember Onyemeneke who had empires, remember the Aros. The eze in the Igbo traditional set-up is not a dictator, it is not like the Oba of Benin, or the Ashanti head of the Ashantis. Igbos enwe Eze means the eze had its limitations. In the republican set-up, you still had to depend, you still had to debate with the igwes, the lesser obis. The age groups had rules. The Igbos throughout their history, they had their own type of chiefs. But when those chiefs got out of hand they got the boot. So the Igbos have always had their chiefs. So the people who formed this, they didn't go to every village asking for their opinion. On their own they decided to call it Ohaneze. That's how it started. It was not very popular at that point. But I told you at a certain stage, the popular party NPP (ebe esere madu) beat them to it. Remember, it was later when they had nothing to look forward to, the military governed the whole place, Ohaneze started resurging, it was a resurgimento and that is why Ohaneze stuck. You might as well say why is it not called Igbo nile whatever. We had all sorts of names but Ohaneze was how they started it those founders of the Ohaneze group. As far as we are concerned, there are chiefs, traditional chiefs in Igboland who have certain powers except that they were being controlled by their constituents.

If I may add, those cabinet members who are the top echelons of the Ohaneze cabinet inasmuch as by training or by profession they were conservatives, they still believed in the dream of the Igbo, that Igbo should be free from the tentacles of second-class citizens. Those are the MASSOB group. But where they differ from us is that they have different modalities according to their identity. MASSOB wants to secede, they don't want to hear anything about Nigeria. It's all over. Some members of Ohaneze believe that Nigeria is El Dorado, that there is paradise in Nigeria. After all, they created Nigeria. It was through the sweat of the Igbo that Nigeria became what it is, so why run away? At the same time, they (Ohaneze members) don't want to see Igbo being cheated anymore.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Yet, it is widely believed that a good portion of the Ohaneze are only interested in protecting their properties and investment in Nigeria. What is your take?

Hon. Okocha: You are correct. That is why I say that they may be conservative, but at the same time, those of us who are in Ohaneze who believe that it is probably not in the best interest of Igbo to secede now. Why can't we get the presidency for the first time? Let us try and get this thing and see whether there could be changes. We do not believe in being conservative about it we are out in the open talking about it. But I don't think we are ready to determine the map of Biafra from Agbor to Warri. I think that is Utopia because even though they are saying they are Biafrans, they don't even believe they are Igbo. I'm talking about Agbor from Ndokwa down to Borny, which is the riverine area. They don't believe they are Igbo even though they speak Igbo in Borny. So for now I believe that if we can use those resources, that Nigeria could be salvaged. If Igbo take over the presidency and bring back work. Because people are not working in Nigeria. The president is traveling as I'm speaking to you. Obasanjo is somewhere in Romania, going to Italy. He has visited the Pope fifty times, has gone to London until the British Prime minister is tired of receiving him at the airport, so now it’s a council member receiving him.

We believe that a working Igbo president that can log in sixteen hours a day. There is no work in Nigeria now. People just go to pillage the treasury. So I think Igbo should not run away, they should play the parity game, they should belong to the federation they worked so hard to bring about. That is our platform and that is why we are seeking the Igbo presidency 2003.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Some in your group are said to be nursing presidential ambitions as Igbo and appear to be enjoying the support of Ohaneze. It is a matter of public record that some of these men took up arms against their own blood during the civil war. Why does Ohaneze feel comfortable in parading such men as Igbo "leaders" when the minimum of a public apology and acceptance has NOT been tendered before OHA for the abomination committed by those men? Are the Igbo that cheap and forgetful?

Hon. Okocha: Okay I would like to have the test on that question. Who were the Ohaneze who took up arms? One of the greatest members of Ohaneze is Ojukwu, the leader of Biafra, Iwuanyanwu was a soldier in Biafra, Dr. Okigbo was an administrator in Awka province. I want to know those who fought against Biafra that are Ohaneze members.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: I understand what you have to say about Ojukwu, Iwuanyanwu, Okigbo and perhaps yourself. But what about the other members of Ohaneze who actually fought against their own people during the war?

Hon. Okocha: Those in Ohaneze, the visible ones in Ohaneze, may differ, and the modalities of achieving that Igbo goal, Igbo interest Eso if you can give me one or two names that you feel betrayed the Biafran trust, that is in the top echelon of Ohaneze I'll be able to take that question.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: If you knew that somebody fought the war, for example, for the other side, would that disqualify him for leadership, in Ohaneze? Should that disqualify him from leadership of Nd'Igbo?

Hon. Okocha: If we knew that he fought on the other side, it’s a major negative on the backs of whomever that will come to seek an Igbo vote. Knowing that at the crucial time that Igbo needed sympathy and solidarity he went to the other side.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: We know, for example, that Ike Nwachukwu fought the war on the Nigerian side. He bore arms against his own people, against Biafra, and we don't have him on record apologizing for that.

Hon. Okocha: Is Ohaneze proposing Ike Nwachukwu?


BiafraNigeriaWorld: It is just an example, although his name has been bandied about as a possible candidate.


Hon. Okocha: Before now, Ohaneze had been taunted, you don't have a candidate, you made a declaration. Suddenly we are approaching zero hour, and suddenly we have about five candidates, credible candidates.


BiafraNigeriaWorld: Who are they?

Okocha answers question in Part 2
A BIAFRA_NIGERIA_WORLD EXLUSIVE INTERVIEW

Goodluck Jonathan Listed On Time's 100 Most Influential People On Earth

TIME MAGAZINE

The twin imperatives of trying to end a bloody northern Nigeria Islamist rebellion led by Boko Haram and dismantle the fuel subsidies that are one of the country's main sources of corruption (but are also, awkwardly, generally popular for keeping gas prices low) requires bold leadership of Jonathan, who is finishing his first year in office. Whether Nigeria descends into civil unrest, civil war or splits, or whether it reforms and Africa's sleeping giant finally awakens, depends foremost on him.

THE FULL LIST: THE 2012 TIME 100 POLL

The Ambrose Ehirim-Apollos Nwauwa Q & A Interview

Dr Apollos Nwauwa's teaching and research focus on modern Africa, especially colonial and post-colonial, intellectual and diaspora history. His published works include Imperialism, Academe, and Nationalism: Britain and University Education for Africans, 1860-1960 (London: Frank Cass, 1997), several book chapters, and numerous peer-reviewed scholarly articles featured in international journals including Anthropos (Germany); Cahiérs D'Études Africaines (France); Africa Quarterly( India); Journal of Asian and African Studies (Israel); History in Africa (USA); Canadian Journal of African Historical Studies (Canada); Ife Journal of History (Nigeria); Ufahamu (USA); and International Journal of African Studies (USA). Dr. Nwauwa serves on the editorial board of many journals and was Guest-Editor of special issue of the International Journal of African Studies in 2007. He is the President of Igbo Studies Association and recently coedited Against All Odds: The Igbo Experience in Post-Colonial Nigeria (Goldline & Jacobs Publishing, 2011). Dr Nwauwa is the Editor, Ofo: Journal of Transatlantic Studies.

Excerpts:

You and Ebere Onwudiwe worked on an important book, "Between Tradition and Change: Sociopolitical and Economic Transformation Among the Igbo of Nigeria." What inspired the project?

The publication of this book was inspired by the enduring commitment of contributors and co-editors to the growth and dissemination of serious scholarship on the Igbo. Between Tradition and Change was not initially begun as a book project per se; rather, it was the result of a scholarly dialogue by Igbo intellectuals about the historical, political, economic, social and cultural elements of the Igbo question. In 2005, Professor Ebere Onwudiwe, then Director of the National Resource Center for African Studies at Central State University, Wilberforce, Ohio, invited prominent Igbo scholars for a conference on the Igbo ethno-political history with a view to understanding the place of the Igbo in the Nigerian political dispensation. The political situation in Nigeria at that time necessitated this conference. It was a time when the Igbo were debating the best way to fight what they saw as their systemic marginalization by successive regimes of the Nigerian state. It was the period when chatter on the Igbo role in national affairs (The Igbo Question) was hot, leading to a political environment ripe for the growth of the Movement for the Actualization of the Sovereign State of Biafra (MASSOB), and the predictable hostile response of federal forces. At this point too, the role of Igbo intellectuals in national affairs came increasingly into question as they said or did very little on the Igbo question. The decline in national political influence mainly due to the civil war (1967-1970) undermined even the local authority of elders and traditional establishment in Igboland. Thus, the lack of national voice was gradually spilling over into an attenuation of the socio-political cohesion in Igbo land. Although the papers from this conference were published in a special issue of the International Journal of African Studies in 2007 for which I was guest editor, we felt that these quality papers deserved wider circulation and readership. Thus, Between Tradition and Change came about; it provides a detailed and insightful account of the transformation of Igbo society, politics and economy since the period of European contact. The Igbo experience demonstrates how internal and global factors gave rise to new dynamics of change as African societies engaged with the Western world and developments in the new global arena

How do you perceive the Igbo of today and the Igbo of yesteryears. What changed dramatically by way of cultural heritage?

To some extent, the Igbo have remained true to their roots; however, what has changed is the way they have responded to the vagaries and challenges of the modern Nigerian state. Just as cultural heritage of any society can be enduring, it can also be lost if not properly harnessed and preserved. Like other societies, the Igbo have adopted and adapted to new forces of change while striving to retain important elements of their indigenous society. They pride themselves as being the most de-tribalized Nigerians. This mindset has its own pros and cons. On the one hand, it is the only way migrant Igbo can fit into their host communities. De-tribalization has not really helped the Igbo in the Nigerian context. It did not help the political future of Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe very much nor is it helping the current Igbo leadership in Igboland and in Abuja. Instead, it diminishes Igbo cultural heritage since the Igbo concentrates on how to fit into everyone else’s but their own culture. Thus, relations between the Igbo nation, other ethnic nationalities and the Nigerian state in the postcolonial period have been marked by intense conflicts and contestation for political and economic control. This tension, culminating in the Nigeria-Biafra war, introduced new significant currents that shape Igbo society today and her relationship to Nigeria and the global community. Yet, despite some strains and shifts in their traditional institutions, the Igbo remain well-equipped to address issues facing them as a nation within contemporary Nigerian society. The key to a meaningful progress centers around a visionary leadership in the spirit of the dictum: Show the Light and the People Will Follow.

What is the Igbo Diaspora not doing right in terms of influencing decisions back home to effect change, using its background of living in a thorough system and an organized society?

Contrary to what many think, the Igbo Diaspora is not really a homogeneous, coherent group. Like other ethnic nationalities in the USA, the Igbo Diaspora consists of peoples from all walks of life separated by everything and only united by the fact that they are all Igbo. Serious social class disparity exists between them; therefore, presenting a united front in influencing or engineering actions at home continues to be a challenge. Just as it is at home in reaching consensus, so it is, if not worse, in the Diaspora. Indeed, it is in the Diaspora that the Igbo maxim: Igbo-Enwe-Eze manifests strongly and often in a negative and counterproductive fashion. Worsening this dictum is the callous application of the American principles of American freedom of expression and choice. The World Igbo Congress effort in providing a common forum has often been bedeviled with challenges crisis within the organization itself, making difficult for any meaningful collective ideas and actions that will influence affairs at home. Thus, what can safely be said is that whatever influences, real or imagined, that the Igbo in Diaspora are making center on individual rather than a collective action. The Igbo Studies Association, though a scholarly/professional organization, is already in the process of forming an action committee that will liaise with colleagues at home in moving the Igbo forward in political, economic, and social-cultural spheres. Yet, the difficult part is to define the meeting points and boundaries between politics and scholarship.

On Igbo women in politics, it seems to be a level playing ground coupled with a changing world. Are the women becoming relative to the cultural and political culture in Igbo land? And what's your take on that?

Women’s participation in politics, like in other callings, is now a global phenomenon, and the Igbo have not been left out. Despite that British colonialism scuttle the progress that women made in pre-colonial Igbo society, the post-independence era has increasingly witnessed the steady progress in women empowerment in Nigerian politics. It has become the rule now rather than exception that list of commissioners and major political appointments must include women. Although there is still a long way to go, the Igbo has not done too badly compared with other ethnicities. Although the Igbo have produced female federal lawmakers in both Senate and House of Representatives, and state lawmakers and deputy governors, no woman has yet been elected as chief executive of any of the five states in Igboland. Igbo women are doing much better in appointive spots compared with elective positions. I do believe that with time, this anomaly will be rectified through more education, awareness, and recognition of the boundless leadership skills of Igbo women.

In 1997, you published a scholarly text " Imperialism, Academe and Nationalism: Britain and University Education for Africans 1860-1960.” You did research on 100 years of British Empire and education in Africa. Analysis on British Empire is almost everywhere and had been written in many forms. What was the need for the book?

Debate on the nature of British rule in Africa, especially their colonial education policy, is one that will never go away. Different scholars approach the issue from varying perspective based on new research and vantage points. Initially, we were misled into almost believing hook and sinker that British colonial education policy was instituted for the benefit of Africans. As new research became available, much of the conclusions that glorified colonial education as benevolent have been challenged. My work on Britain and university education falls under this revisionist history. It demonstrated that western education was the most seductive form of British“cultural imperialism” especially Africans realized that university education opened up prospects for economic advancement, individual dignity, and would ultimately provide the keys to political power and self-government.

From 1860s, African demand for a university in West Africa was frustrated by the British until 1948 when they created four universities – in Uganda, Sierra Leone, Nigeria and the Gold Coast. My research was geared towards providing answers as to why the British rejected the university idea at first through the 1930 only to move swiftly in favor of it in the post-World War II period. Initially, the British worried about the place which the highly education African would occupy under colonial rule that depended on collaboration with traditional rulers under the indirect rule system and the fact that the highly education African elite would be difficult to assuage and control. In the meantime, Africans returning from America with higher education were proving to be too radicalized based on their racial experiences in the USA, and Britain was getting apprehensive about more Africans going to America for university education. London now felt that a British-run university education system in Africa would make it easier to mold the African character. Furthermore, the post-war circumstances ushered in a new era of fervent nationalist movements in Africa to which Britain could not forestall. Seeing the handwriting on the wall, it is my conclusion in this book that British effort to “manage nationalism” by producing a core of African elite imbued with British tradition and values that the British took on the expensive project of creating four universities in Africa in 1948 with mostly British taxpayers’ money. Existing studies on university education in colonial Africa did not engage in this aspect of my analysis and that's what makes my book unique.

Based on the text, and compared to now, what are the significant changes in independent Africa today with a fallen-in-standard educational system?

In the period following independence, there were no significant changes to the colonial education system that African countries inherited from their former European colonial powers. In those African countries that were formerly under French rule such as Senegal and Cote D’Ivoire, the French education system was retained downright. The same scenario was replicated in former British colonies such as Nigeria, Ghana, Uganda, etc. While the curriculum in terms of subject areas may have been altered a bit to reflect the new era of independence, much of the pedagogical approaches remained essentially the same. However, the standard of education in each country has been proportional to the level of economic condition and political stability of the respective countries. In corruption-ridden economies with rogue leadership such as Nigeria, the standard of education had fallen proportionately. When Ghana’s economy came to its knees in the 1970s followed by political failures, Ghanaian standard of education collapsed proportionately. That is exactly where Nigeria finds itself today. Therefore, any solution to falling standard of education must first begin with stabilizing the economy and ending political corruption in government and the educational system.

What had caused the failure of the school systems in Africa today?

As stated earlier, falling standard of education has little to do with the system itself but has everything to do with the level of socio-economic and political situation in a country. When a country is faced with high level of unemployment for university graduates, poor pay for university teachers, lack of financial resources on the part of parents, and government neglect of education, the attendant consequence will be falling standard and system failure. The lack of accountability on the part of government officials infects educational institutions, administrators and teachers and thereby leaving the students and their parents more vulnerable. I do not believe that any country with such chaotic political and epileptic economy as Nigeria can realistically sustain high standard of education at any level.

Studying at Bendel State University, Ekpoma, one would expect you'd settle in Nigeria and provide your services for the country. What compelled you to leave for services elsewhere?

After completing my NYSC in Kaduna State in 1987, I was recalled and employed by my alma mater, Bendel State University, Ekpoma, as graduate assistant. I taught there for one year before leaving the country for further studies in Canada. After completing my doctorate in 1993 and getting ready to return back to Ekpoma, I noticed that even some of my lecturers and colleagues there were leaving for overseas in droves. The Nigerian economy had entered into a downward spiral and the political leadership had also entered into a major carnival of corruption that friends and family members persuaded not to return immediately until things get better. Thus instead of returning to Nigeria, I accepted an offer from the USA as an assistant professor in African history in one of their universities. At first, I thought this stay would be very brief but I was proved wrong when the political saga of the Babangida-Shonekan-Abacha triad pushed Nigeria deeper into political and economic uncertainties. Soon, I began to take my stay in the USA one year at a time. Twenty years and I am still counting. What a shame! That I am still in the USA today is an indication that Nigeria has yet to get the country in order.

There is the Nigerian Association of Greater Toledo. Tell me about it.

The simplest cure for nostalgia for many immigrants in foreign lands is to seek to replicate the socio-cultural practices at home in their new place of abode. The Nigerian Association of Greater Toledo was founded to fulfill this need. I served as the vice president of this Association for four years, and president for another two years. Formed in 2003, the Nigerian Association of Greater Toledo (NAGT) is a socio-cultural organization dedicated to the progress and vitality of the Nigerian community in the Greater Toledo area of Ohio. As the number of Nigerians in the community increased especially in the last few years, it became necessary to have an enrichment forum where issues of importance to members and their community will be received, considered and acted upon collectively. It was against this backdrop that NAGT was formed. Highlights of our mission include: To work cooperatively with public and private agencies, businesses, industries and community organizations on issues beneficial to members and the larger community; to foster unity and good relationship between and among Nigerians and members of other communities and citizens of Greater Toledo; to promote social, educational, cultural and economic interests of Nigerians both here and in Nigeria; and to educate and share with our children and the Greater Toledo community on the beauty and riches of the Nigerian tapestry of cultures and languages.

What would you say the organization has accomplished from the time it was established?

The success of every organization is measured against its stated goals and objectives. Despites its relative young age, the Association has already made its marks in Toledo and its environs through its socio-cultural, community and diversity activities as it continues to fulfill the goals for which it was constituted. The Association has united Nigerians in the Greater Toledo area into a vibrant community that caters for the welfare of its members while contributing to the socio-cultural and economic development of Toledo and its neighboring communities. Plans are underway for scholarship fund launching to help those in need.

I read about the Nigerian Cultural Heritage House. Is the structure in place now? If not, what's going on?

No, the Nigerian Heritage House has not yet become a reality although the idea lives on. The number of Nigerians living in the Toledo area is quite small compared to other larger cities in Ohio such as Columbus, Cleveland and Cincinnati. Therefore, to raise the funds that can help to procure and sustain the Heritage House remains quite a challenge. But given the progress we have made in terms of fund-raising so far, it is only a matter of time in no distant future for us to realize our Heritage project. The worse thing an organization such as ours can do is to hastily commit to a major real estate project without proper planning and readiness in terms of resources.

Let's talk about the current situation in Nigeria. It has the same resemblance of the past. What's your take on that?

Undoubtedly, history seems to be repeating itself in Nigeria. It is like déjà vu all over again!Just like the 1960s crises that culminated in the civil war, the national polity is at the brinks again denoted by ethnic and sectarian tension and violence; mayhem and wanton killing of innocent people, especially the Igbo, fleeing the north for safety; government inability to stop the violence and bring perpetrators to justice; segments of the country feel that it is their birthright to rule Nigeria in perpetuity; and the call for sovereign national conference. Government officials have once again engaged in a carnival of corruption while the masses wallow in economic despair; power-sharing is detested and equal economic and political opportunities for all has become an aberration. All these social and political vices were the same scenarios that resulted in the crises of the 1960s. Observers fear that Nigeria may be heading toward total disintegration. While some would quip that we have been there before and Nigeria is still standing, others would argue that circumstances have changed as the country seems to be in more precarious situation with several cracks at its unity than the 1960 era.

What's your thought on the country's future?

Stability in Nigeria can only be assured if Nigerians themselves agree on the basic elements of national unity and the need to be united as one country. Forced and false unity does not always work. This seems to have been the case with Nigeria. Nigeria as a country was patchwork cobbled together by the British imperial governor, Lord Frederick Lugard, in 1914. From then on, successive British colonial governors of Nigeria instituted several constitutional revisions towards creating what they hoped would become a perfect union. This did not materialize before nationalist movement forced them to quickly retreat and transferred power to Nigerians. Since then, the ghost of the Lugardian patchwork has continued to haunt Nigeria and its successive leadership.

For Nigeria to resolve this lingering existential impasse, the inauguration of the sovereign national conference has become an absolute necessity. This conference will bring all the various ethnic nationalities in the country to a bargaining table to: 1. resolve to be a part of the union called Nigerian; 2. agree to the unity and inviolability of the union; 3. agree on ethnic or regional economic and political power-sharing principles; 4. agree on a federal system of government in which states have more power to legislate provided it did not negate the powers of the union; 5. resolve and recognize the separation of religion and state; 6. resolve the oil derivation and revenue sharing formula; and other matters. Part of this will be an understanding that these resolutions are only subject to alteration after 50 years. It is during this discussion that any group that does not want to be a part of Nigeria should have the opportunity to opt out or be persuaded to stay. This may seem like a recipe for disintegration but one cannot underestimate the power of negotiation. Once these agreements are reached and signed into law, a violation of any part of the contract by any constituent groups will be a crime against the Nigerian state.

Your thoughts on Nd'Igbo cultural and political future?

Unlike other ethnic groups in Nigeria, the Igbo are a people that have done less to promote their culture and nurture their political influence. Language is a major feature of a people’s culture. Out of the three major ethnicities in Nigeria, the Igbo come up the rear when it comes to nurturing their language. A typical Igbo person takes pride in his/her ability to speak other languages other than Igbo. Challenge and education Igbo in the Igbo language, and you see the extent of the problem. In this sense, Igbo cultural future is in danger of extinction just as the Igbo language is in trouble.

Politically, the Igbo political influence in Nigeria has not fully recovered since the outbreak of the Nigeria civil war. In some quarters, it was partly the fear of Igbo domination that led to the mass killing of the Igbo in 1966 resulting in the Nigerian civil war. Since the war ended, although there was the much-talked about “no victor, no vanquished”, it was clear that all hands were on deck in many parts of Nigeria to ensure that the Igbo never rose in political influence again. It has been a struggle ever since; that partly explained why the most respected and influential national politician in the name of Nnamdi Azikiwe lost the 1979 presidential election to the little known Shehu Shagari. It is now 42 years since the end of the civil war and no Igbo person has ruled Nigeria as an executive president. While the Igbo are aware of this problem, they should begin to strategize on how to be relevant again. But unless the current Igbo leadership abandon internal bickering, selfishness and “pull him down” syndrome, and present a united front, the political future of the Igbo will continue to be in disarray.

Nd'Igbo are not writing enough about their history and I'm afraid Igbo history will one day disappear as a result. What should be done?

Just as the Igbo language is under the threat of extinction so is the Igbo history/studies. Both require urgent attention. Currently, enough studies and writings are not being carried out on Igbo history, culture and tradition for a number of major reasons: First, the Igbo no longer have enough historians; secondly, the available historians would rather focus on other fields/areas of study such as international relations where they hope to work as diplomat or secure a UN job that will do nothing about Igbo studies; and thirdly, the Igbo themselves neither pay attention nor support efforts for keeping the study of Igbo history and culture alive. It was more than a decade ago when Professor J. F. Ade Ajayi called upon Nigerians to cultivate a sense of history and to rediscover the value of history to nation-building and for the socio-political and economic development of the country. Ndi-Igbo have yet to heed to that call despite that it was the Igbo iconic historian, the late Professor K.O. Dike, who popularized the study of history not only in Nigeria but also in Africa as a whole. Other first class historians of Igbo extraction included J.C. Anene, Chieka Ifemesia, Adiele Afigbo and others. It is sad that the number of specialists in Igbo history have continued to shrink since the past ten years. Unless the Igbo begin to value their own history, recognize and patronize the works of their few existing historians, and encourage their children to value and read history in schools and universities, Igbo history will gradually disappear. As part of the effort to rekindle interest, southeastern governments should institute a commission on Igbo history, establish scholarships and essay contests on Igbo history at all levels of education in the states.

Tell me about Igbo Studies Association.

The Igbo Studies Association (ISA) was founded at the African Studies Association (ASA) Conference in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on November 8, 1999. The mission of the Association is to promote and encourage scholarship on IGBO history, culture and society in African studies; to forge intellectual links and network with scholars, policy makers, and activists inside and outside NIGERIA; to participate actively and collaboratively in continental and global debates with interested organizations in Nigeria, the U.S. and other countries on issues specifically relevant correlated to Igbo studies; to work actively for the promotion of Igbo language with interested organizations and/or institutions in diverse regions of the world. ISA holds an annual conference at Howard University in Washington, DC featuring numerous seasoned and young scholars working on topics relating to the Igbo. Participants come from Nigeria, USA, Canada and other parts of the world. So far, it is one of the strongest Associations dedicated to Igbo scholarship.

As President of Igbo Studies Association, what vital roles do you think should be played under your leadership to educate future Igbo leaders and role models?

Although it is true that the Igbo Studies Association, which I head as president, is not necessarily a political but a scholarly organization, I expect the Association to play a very prominent role in educating the political leadership in Ala-Igbo. Ideas generated by scholars on the political, social, economic and cultural life of the Igbo, if properly harnessed, will serve as reference points for Igbo leaders. Our hope is that with time, it will become absurd for anyone to present himself or herself for a leadership position in Igboland without an appreciable knowledge of aspects of the Igbo culture, history, and society. In recent times, the Igbo have abandoned education for quick money from dubious businesses and from political corruption. This sort of lifestyle contributes nothing meaningful to the general welfare of the people. Instead, it creates more avarice and crime. Life and property have become so unsafe in Igboland that prominent Igbo would rather stay in Hausaland and Yorubaland than visit their home towns and villages. But a well-educated person is an asset to the people, always finding ways to give back to society than to wreak havoc. The more education the Igbo are about their heritage and the need for genuine progress and development, the less likely they would turn to crime and avariciousness.

You and Chima Korieh wrote “Against All Odds: The Igbo Experience In Post-Colonial Nigeria.” Speaking of the ‘horrors of ethnic politics, civil war and the Igbo example of perseverance,’ the question here is, based on that perspective, did Igbo actually learn anything, looking at what had erupted over the months in Northern Nigeria?

Against All Odds is a scholarly book which explores the experiences of the Igbo in postcolonial Nigeria and evinces both the grim side of postcolonial politics in Nigeria, particularly the horrors of ethnic politics, civil war, and the Igbo example of perseverance and human potential to overcome dreadful conditions of such magnitude. The study illuminates the tension emanating from the enduring colonial legacies and their influences on Nigerian peoples and public life; it links socio-economic, cultural, and political events in Nigeria since the 1960s and the peculiar circumstances faced by the Igbo ethnic group with the continuing attempts to forge a more perfect nation state in which every constituent group is treated with fairness and equity. Yet, it has become increasingly more glaring that the Igbo did not gain or learn much from the horrors of the 1960s which resulted to the civil war. An important gain would have been the recognition of the Igbo as equal partners within the Nigerian political and economic contexts. But this has been quite elusive. It has been a little over 41 years since the end of the war and the phony declaration of “no victor, no vanquished,” yet no Igbo has ruled the country ever since. As at the moment, that possibility remained in the distant future. While it is true that the Igbo are partly to blame for their lack of organization and strategic coordination to attain this goal, there is no question that other ethnic groups, especially the bigger two, have some lingering reservations against an Igbo leadership of the country. It was only just recently that an army general of Igbo extraction was ever appointed as the chief of army staff since the end of the civil war. Yet, one wonders whether the Igbo have learned anything from the civil war. Although they are aware of the enduring animosity against them and the fact that they have not been fully accepted back into Nigeria, the Igbo assumed otherwise. Thus, they returned back to the North in droves only to become targets and victims of wanton killings again and again anytime their host communities got upset over often flimsy and mundane issues. Time and time again since the end of the war, the Igbo run back to the East only to return to run yet again. Who said the Igbo have learned from the civil war. Naively they still believe that hatred and animosity against them would disappear at dawn only to be disappointed at sunset.

Your teaching and research focuses on modern Africa. Is Africa developed by way of technology compared to the West and a fast-paced growing Asia? And if not, what seem to have been the problem?

When I use the term “modern Africa,” in my teaching and research, I focus on the period from 1800 to the present, and this encompasses the colonial and the post-colonial eras. Africa’s post-colonial condition is linked to its colonial past, and this colonial past laid the foundation for the development of Africa’s underdevelopment. There are a variety of indices of measuring a country’s or continent’s development and the lack of it. If development is defined as improvement in human welfare, quality of life and social wellbeing especially as they relate to technology, it can be argued that Africa is still a developing continent – the best way to state that the level of this development is low just as its pace is slow in comparison to the West and Asia. Technologically, Africa still remains a consumer rather than producer of technology. There is almost no type of technology you see in the West and Asia that you cannot find in Africa; the difference, however, is who produces the technology. Of course, it is the producers rather than the consumers that profit from it! Here lies the problem – colonial legacy, which created and continues to sustain unparalleled dependency syndrome in Africa. For example, Africa is one of the largest cell phone consumers today but how many of those phones are made or patented in Africa. None! It is also the low level of technology in Africa that compels Africans to ship their raw cocoa to the West only to turn around to buy chocolate that have been processed elsewhere with improved technology. Unfortunately, there is now no end to this economic pattern since under globalization, no continent or country can successfully close its door as Japan did in the eighteenth and nineteen centuries. Such isolationism in today’s world can only spell doom for a country since economic, social, and technological processes are intertwined in a complicated fashion with serious political consequences.

Nigerian Jungle Blues: Trans Amadi Slaughter House

A young man carries an animal carcass through the Trans-Amadi Slaughter, the main abbatoir of Port Harcourt.


A butcher cuts up a cow carcass amidst a pool of blood and guts, at the Trans-Amadi Slaughter, the main abbatoir of Port Harcourt. At the slaughter, animals are killed in the open, their blood spilt into the waterways below and their skin is burned by the flames of old tires, which creates thick clouds of black smoke over the city. Fish had been the traditional source of protein in the Niger Delta, but as fish stocks have dwindled due to pollution from the oil industry and over fishing, meat is becoming more common. Date: June 20, 2006. Location: Port Harcourt. Image: Ed Kashi


Amidst the bones and smoke, a young girl sells drinks to the workers at the Trans-Amadi Slaughter, the main abbatoir of Port Harcourt. At the slaughter, animals are killed in the open, their blood spilt into the waterways below and their skin is burned by the flames of old tires, which creates thick clouds of black smoke over the city. Fish had been the traditional source of protein in the Niger Delta, but as fish stocks have dwindled due to pollution from the oil industry and over fishing, meat is becoming more common. Date: June 20, 2006. Location: Port Harcourt. Image: Ed Kashi